Do development meeting

Recently we, the GNOME Do developers, held a meeting to discuss our goals for the project.  Development has slowed to a crawl over the last few months so the purpose of this meeting was to determine where we should be taking the project, and how to get development rolling again.  I was able to rescue most of the log of the meeting from my xchat logs, and I’ve cleaned it up and am posting it here now, for all to see.

Unfortunately the first few minutes of the meeting were not present in my log.  We started a little late and the only thing that’s missing in this log is the decision to change the name of the project from “GNOME Do”, to just “Do”.

Note that all times shown below are UTC.

8:17:28 PM <cszikszoy_> (how is this going to work? Is someone updating the wave with our decisions here?)
8:17:36 PM *lamalex  will
8:17:38 PM <RAOF> I’m on it.
8:17:42 PM <lamalex> or RAOFcan
8:17:45 PM <lamalex> RAOF, take care of wave
8:18:03 PM <lamalex> I’ll take care of the GNOME Do -> transition
8:18:05 PM <cszikszoy_> next: move away from
8:18:08 PM <djsiegel> lamalex: ok, thank you
8:18:09 PM <cszikszoy_> this is an easy one
8:18:18 PM <djsiegel> #1 what domain name do we use?

8:18:18 PM <cszikszoy_> I already pay for a webserver docky
8:18:26 PM <cszikszoy_> buy a domain name and we can use that server
8:18:28 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_is it pretty reliable ?
8:18:32 PM <cszikszoy_> godaddy
8:18:37 PM <djsiegel> they host it?
8:18:39 PM <cszikszoy_> I’ve had nothing but awesome experience with them
8:18:40 PM <cszikszoy_> yep
8:18:53 PM <djsiegel> how long have you used them?
8:19:02 PM <cszikszoy_> ~3-4 years
8:19:17 PM <djsiegel> ok, seems reasonable to keep docky and do under similar structure
8:19:19 PM <lamalex> godaddy are pretty much the standard afaik
8:19:22 PM <djsiegel> since we’re all the same people
8:19:28 PM <lamalex>
8:19:34 PM <djsiegel> godaddy is standard for names, burarely hosting…
8:19:34 PM <cszikszoy_> it doesn’really have anything to do with docky
8:19:46 PM <djsiegel> well, it makes sense to host do and docky together
8:19:49 PM <cszikszoy_> they would only be hosted on the same server
8:19:56 PM <djsiegel> DanRabbit should have access to both, for examples
8:19:57 PM <cszikszoy_> they would have different domain names completely
8:20:00 PM <lamalex> damn, taken
8:20:11 PM <cszikszoy_> oh sure, i can change ftp users and such
8:20:17 PM <RAOF> Right.
8:20:19 PM <djsiegel> do-project
8:20:23 PM <djsiegel> yuck
8:20:28 PM <DanRabbit> haha
8:20:42 PM <djsiegel>
8:20:44 PM <cszikszoy_> all that we need is a domain name, and I’ll handle setting up the webserver and that junk
8:20:58 PM <mpiroc> doesn’appear to be taken
8:21:06 PM <lamalex> mpiroc, urls need 3 or more chars
8:21:06 PM <djsiegel> is owned by MS
8:21:13 PM <DanRabbit> damn
8:21:27 PM <djsiegel> we should try alternate suffixes
8:21:36 PM <djsiegel> I really don’like .com anyay
8:21:38 PM <cszikszoy_>
8:21:38 PM <djsiegel> anyway
8:21:41 PM <lamalex> do us
8:21:46 PM <lamalex> a little biracy don’you think?
8:21:48 PM <lamalex> :P
8:21:57 PM <cszikszoy_> I that was our “thing”? :)
8:22:00 PM <lamalex> also we’re an international project
8:22:11 PM <DanRabbit> I know this might be kind of contriversial, but what about moving Do and Docky to the elementary-projecserver?
8:22:13 PM <djsiegel> ?
8:22:14 PM <cszikszoy_> I know, it was a joke.
8:22:14 PM <lamalex> i don’think RAOFwould appreciate being relegated to a US domain :)
8:22:15 PM <djsiegel> 4 or 5 do’s?
8:22:18 PM <djsiegel>
8:22:31 PM <DanRabbit> ah, I would never hand that URL out lol
8:22:33 PM <djsiegel> superspa.ce
8:22:43 PM <lamalex> oo
8:22:44 PM <lamalex> daddy likes
8:22:46 PM <DanRabbit> oh yea, something with superspace would be cool
8:22:48 PM <RAOF>
8:22:49 PM <cszikszoy_> so anyways, the details of domain name can be worked oulater, I think besthing to do would start a mailing listhread
8:23:06 PM <d0od> the dominican domain suffix is .do
8:23:08 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_ that goes nowhere!
8:23:16 PM <lamalex>
8:23:20 PM <cszikszoy_> I’ll provide hosting space and handle setting up users
8:23:34 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_: ok you are no webmaster
8:23:40 PM <cszikszoy_> djsiegel: in the interet sof time, I don’wanto spend more than a few minutes brainstorming domain names
8:23:51 PM <cszikszoy_> djsiegel: who said anything about a webmaster?
8:24:07 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_: I said something about it!
8:24:13 PM <cszikszoy_> I just said that I pay for hosting space and have no problem using some of that for do’s website
8:24:26 PM <djsiegel> right, you also said you’d set up accounts and stuff
8:24:27 PM <lamalex> why do we need to move from davebsd in the firsplace? is going away?
8:24:30 PM <djsiegel> doesn’t make you webmaster?
8:24:40 PM <djsiegel> lamalex: I justhink it’s a bit nerdy and non sequitur
8:24:56 PM <cszikszoy_> no, that would make me the setter up of accounts
8:25:01 PM <DanRabbit> lol
8:25:03 PM <cszikszoy_> the webmaster would make website
8:25:07 PM <lamalex> cszikszoy, djsiegel, kind of irrelvant
8:25:11 PM <DanRabbit> okay anyways, too much time on trivial topics
8:25:15 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_ you need to take it or leave it, we someone in charge
8:25:43 PM <djsiegel> it’s not trivial, guys, it would be very useful to know who’s doing what going forward
8:25:57 PM <djsiegel> is anyone interested in being responsible for the server?
8:26:21 PM <cszikszoy_> I don’think need to take or leave anything, I’m offering hosting space so someone else doesn’have pay $60/year
8:26:35 PM <lamalex> i think cszikszoy_ volunteered, why is he not an acceptable webmaster?
8:26:41 PM <djsiegel> he is@!
8:26:45 PM <djsiegel> thais whaI am saying
8:26:55 PM <cszikszoy_> I think you missed a ‘w’, djsiegel
8:27:03 PM <lamalex> <djsiegel> cszikszoy_: ok you are no webmaster
8:27:07 PM <djsiegel> haha!
8:27:07 PM <djsiegel> oops
8:27:08 PM <djsiegel> lol
8:27:11 PM <cszikszoy_> kind of changing the meaning whayou said, but in thacase, ok
8:27:13 PM <lamalex> hahaha
8:27:14 PM <djsiegel> “ok you are now webmaster”
8:27:16 PM <djsiegel> fuck guys
8:27:18 PM <djsiegel> SKYPE
8:27:18 PM <RAOF> :)
8:27:24 PM <cszikszoy_> we’re in agreement… so, next?
8:27:26 PM <mahfouz> what is an ebbmaster?
8:27:27 PM <djsiegel> yes
8:27:37 PM <djsiegel> oh that was funny
8:28:04 PM <lamalex> zg/tracker can wait, let’s defer that for another meeting
8:28:08 PM <djsiegel> Ok, we’re off to a great start: rename Do, move new server be admined by chris
8:28:12 PM <djsiegel> yeah thais long tail stuff
8:28:23 PM <lamalex> we don’t want to talk about new features righnow, need to stabilize core
8:28:27 PM <djsiegel> right
8:28:46 PM <lamalex> so current issues in core
8:28:49 PM <lamalex> plugins can still take down Do
8:29:10 PM <DanRabbit> cszikszoy_: lol
8:29:14 PM <RAOF> Plugins are required to handle threading.
8:29:15 PM <cszikszoy_> DanRabbit: ?
8:29:26 PM <DanRabbit> cszikszoy_: webmonster :)
8:29:31 PM <cszikszoy_> ah :)
8:29:33 PM <djsiegel> I am pretty sure we need to split out plugin into their own processes  for absolute separation
8:29:49 PM <djsiegel> which is not bad, docky seems to be doing this with some of the external python stuff?
8:29:50 PM <RAOF> That’s certainly my feeling, yes.
8:29:56 PM <lamalex> yeah, I think so too. Which luckily mono makes pretty easy
8:30:07 PM <cszikszoy_> djsiegel: sort of, but that limits the sort of interaction python helpers can have with docky
8:30:09 PM <djsiegel> I seriously think we should follow suit to allow two classes of plugins: C# (.NET) and dbus
8:30:21 PM <RAOF> Yes.
8:30:29 PM <lamalex> +1
8:30:33 PM  *mahfouz has qui( 23Quit: Ex-Cha 23)
8:30:35 PM <djsiegel> if we do a new plugin style with dbus, get to start over
8:30:39 PM <djsiegel> it could be very nice to do that
8:31:02 PM <djsiegel> for example, the twitter plugin comes with gwibber
8:31:03 PM <lamalex> we could really just have 1 plugin style of Dbus, and make a .NET wrapper assembly for convenience
8:31:03 PM <djsiegel> or pino
8:31:12 PM <djsiegel> install pino, you have a tweeaction in Do
8:31:17 PM <djsiegel> lamalex: yeah
8:31:19 PM <RAOF> lamalex: Or the other way around, yeah.
8:31:28 PM <RAOF> One will certainly wrap the other.
8:31:31 PM <lamalex> yeah
8:31:46 PM <DanRabbit> djsiegel: yes, I would love to have Do recognize the applications. That would almost remove need add plugins in prefs.
8:31:52 PM <djsiegel> this way zg/tracker can imlement their own integration
8:32:00 PM <RAOF> The one which gets wrapped will be the less-powerful one.  I’m not *sure* we can do everything wanto in dbus.
8:32:00 PM <djsiegel> I’m sure seif will do that tomorrow
8:32:03 PM <RAOF> :)
8:32:08 PM <lamalex> djsiegel, the zg stuff was going to actually be for relevancy engine
8:32:15 PM <djsiegel> ah, right
8:32:17 PM <RAOF> Right.  Allowing other projects to do our work for us is a Good Thing.
8:32:23 PM <DanRabbit> ;)
8:33:12 PM <RAOF> Ok.  So, we’re all agreed that out-of-process plugins is the way to go.
8:33:20 PM <djsiegel> +1
8:33:29 PM <RAOF> What’s actionable here?
8:33:42 PM <djsiegel> well, it helps us think about how to clean up and rearchitect
8:34:14 PM <RAOF> Yeah.  I just wanted something written that someone can pick up and do.
8:35:13 PM <djsiegel> What are we actually left with?
8:35:16 PM <djsiegel> The name, awareness
8:35:23 PM <RAOF> And the code that’s here.
8:35:25 PM <djsiegel> the fact that we are installed on machines
8:35:33 PM <RAOF> We’re not going to be throwing it all away.
8:35:40 PM <djsiegel> The only code we’ll carry over is interface stuff
8:35:44 PM <djsiegel> and even that has to become async
8:35:57 PM <RAOF> We’ll be replacing stuff in-place.
8:36:05 PM <RAOF> We’re *not* doing a mozilla :)
8:37:03 PM <lamalex> what’s a mozilla
8:38:16 PM <djsiegel> Are we happy with our platform? (mono)
8:38:17 PM <RAOF> lamalex: Where you take a successful project, like Netscape Navigator, throw all the code away and spend years making sucky firefox.
8:38:27 PM <lamalex> i am
8:38:29 PM <RAOF> Yes.
8:39:06 PM <djsiegel> Me too.
8:39:49 PM <DanRabbit> I can’say much about Do’s code, because haven’t explored it much. But, even for a relative non-coder Docky + Monodevelop have been really great to work with.
8:40:02 PM <djsiegel> Yeah, mono has the best tools
8:40:04 PM <RAOF> +lots
8:40:25 PM <djsiegel> I was just asking, since we’re already doing a lot of work.
8:41:48 PM <djsiegel> Ok, what’s next/
8:41:54 PM <RAOF> GSoC.
8:42:16 PM <RAOF> Can we apply & get mpiroc to rewrite our relavence engine.
8:42:29 PM <djsiegel> mpiroc: are you on skype?
8:42:38 PM <mpiroc> I’m not, no microphone
8:42:41 PM <djsiegel> ok
8:42:43 PM <mpiroc> I can go install it to listen in
8:43:11 PM <djsiegel> mpiroc: so, whaare you interested in?
8:43:50 PM <mpiroc> RAOF was talking about making the relevance engine contextual. I.e. an item wouldn’just have a score, it would be more or  less relevant in different contexts.
8:44:18 PM <djsiegel> mpiroc: are you doing any research in this area? what is your background? Are a CS student?
8:45:28 PM <mpiroc> I’m a CS student–not doing any research in this area. My background is mostly C# and python, particularly Gtk stuff, allthough I’ve done other stuff for school.
8:45:46 PM <mpiroc> I’m nocurrently involved in Do, although I’ve done some small things with Docky
8:46:11 PM <cszikszoy_> back, sorry, someone came by my desk and they talk, and…. talk.
8:46:51 PM <djsiegel>
8:46:54 PM <cszikszoy_> so, scrolling back, that’s exactly what we did with docky
8:47:02 PM <cszikszoy_> we have the dbus interface thaanyone can consume
8:47:29 PM <cszikszoy_> and I also made a .NET assembly that handled everything that the class handled allowed you to create simple helper that way too
8:47:40 PM <RAOF> mpiroc: So, just doing a contextual relevance engine is not going to take whole summer.  We’d also like you do some research into the area and something nice.
8:47:56 PM <mpiroc> Oh right–I thoughyou mean “are you currently doing any research”
8:48:50 PM <mpiroc> Yeah I can look into something like djsiegel’s screenshot. also think OS X’s spotlight does some cool stuff in this area, buI’m nosure how well it translates to Do
8:48:52 PM <cszikszoy_> mpiroc + GSoC sounds like a fantastic idea
8:49:29 PM *JaVaEs has qui(  23Quit: Leaving. 23)
8:49:45 PM <mpiroc>
8:49:46 PM <cszikszoy_> GSoC doesn’start for a little while, so that would give us some time to flush out our requirements for contextual relevancy engine
8:50:03 PM <djsiegel> mpiroc: sorry that was unrelated
8:50:09 PM <cszikszoy_> in the mean time, what we can do now is to clean up Do.Interface stuff
8:50:19 PM <cszikszoy_> We need to move all GTK UI code Do.Interface.Gtk
8:50:29 PM <mpiroc> cszikszoy_: The SoC doesn’starfor a while, but mentor applications are due by the 12th
8:50:33 PM <mpiroc> just FYI
8:50:42 PM <cszikszoy_> of March?
8:50:42 PM <djsiegel> mpiroc: I justhink it would be really great if you could do some research, produce a white paper
8:50:58 PM <lamalex> mpiroc, I’ll apply for mentorship just to be safe
8:51:01 PM <djsiegel> mpiroc: just so there’s some academic authority to your work, and it’s not just hacking all summer
8:51:14 PM <DanRabbit> djsiegel: that screenshot was HOT
8:51:27 PM <djsiegel> because the relevance engine is a huge opportunity to do some research
8:51:48 PM <mpiroc> djsiegel: That sounds like a good idea
8:52:45 PM <DanRabbit> djsiegel: slightly off topic, but if I could get a list of all the icons that Do uses by itself (no plugins) that would be awesome. That way can get all those done in 128px
8:53:46 PM <cszikszoy_> This sort of goes along with our talk about Do.Interface work, but RAOFand I have talked before about revising definition of an “Icon”
8:54:01 PM <cszikszoy_> specifically, a string just won’cut it
8:55:02 PM <djsiegel> DanRabbit: put a print statement in the relevant part of codre and disable all plugins!
8:55:31 PM <RAOF> Right.  What we need for an Icon base class is the ability to render appropriate targets – cairo surfaces, windows bitmaps, etc.
8:55:39 PM <DanRabbit> djsiegel: if I knew how to do that I wouldn’t ask :p
8:55:40 PM <djsiegel> ok, time to wrap things up
8:55:51 PM <cszikszoy_> DanRabbit: I’ll help you with it later, ping me
8:55:52 PM <djsiegel> let’s look athe wave for a summary of action times
8:55:55 PM <djsiegel> items*
8:55:56 PM <DanRabbit> cszikszoy_: ty
8:56:49 PM <cszikszoy_> I think we still need to talk about just how want to interface with the core of do
8:57:10 PM <cszikszoy_> I think the Do.Platform* code is all good, buthere some work we need to do for Do.Interface* stuff
8:57:53 PM <cszikszoy_> Do.Interface should all be abstract, no GTK ui, and have a generic icon loader, capable of taking our Do.Icon class rendering that icon onto whatever surface we need based on the platform / ui toolkit being used
8:58:00 PM <zash > wtf? skype and wave
8:58:26 PM <cszikszoy_> once that’s done, I feel comfortable picking up the pieces on windows port
8:59:11 PM <cszikszoy_> but as it stands now, it’s not practical to work on windows / osx kde ports.
8:59:20 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_ right
8:59:37 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_ but that’s at least a good 4-6 months away
8:59:41 PM <cszikszoy_> so with the remaining time, what abouscheduling another meeting?
9:00:00 PM <cszikszoy_> djsiegel: yes, but in the 4-6 months meantime, I wanto get Do.Interface* cleaned up and usable
9:00:26 PM <DanRabbit> +1 on scheduling another meeting
9:00:41 PM <cszikszoy_> to do that we need develop some requirements
9:00:56 PM <cszikszoy_> I have good knowledge on what I had to do and hack up make windows support work
9:01:07 PM <cszikszoy_> and there was a significant bit of work I had to do in the Do.Interface* area
9:01:29 PM <djsiegel> hmm
9:01:32 PM <cszikszoy_> so with that in mind, I think we can develop a spec for how want Do.Interface and .Interface.GTK, etc to work interact
9:01:36 PM <djsiegel> ok cszikszoy_can you documensome of this?
9:01:44 PM <djsiegel> the stuff you had most trouble with?
9:01:57 PM <djsiegel> so we can use it as a requirements document when cleaning up and refactoring /
9:02:02 PM <cszikszoy_> sure
9:02:27 PM <cszikszoy_> I’ve gone over most of it with RAOF already I think, buI’ll create a more formal document
9:02:34 PM <cszikszoy_> Is google docs OK with everyone?
9:02:42 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_: sounds good
9:02:51 PM <cszikszoy_> that way we can all view / edithis Do.Interface requiremen/ specs doc
9:03:29 PM <cszikszoy_> what’s the action item for domain name?
9:03:38 PM <cszikszoy_> are we going to think abouifor a bit, or?
9:04:02 PM <cszikszoy_> it would probably be easiest if I just get one, cause can easily get it linked up with my hosting acct with godaddy
9:04:06 PM <RAOF> Think about it for a bit.
9:04:26 PM <cszikszoy_> I assume we can use some of the donations money for this domain name?
9:05:28 PM <djsiegel> cszikszoy_sure, just tell me any of your costs and I can send you money
9:05:29 PM <RAOF> Thawould seem reasonable.
9:05:35 PM <djsiegel> I think we have like $200 buI need to check
9:05:38 PM <cszikszoy_> ok
9:05:48 PM <cszikszoy_> won’be anywhere near that, I’m sure
9:06:19 PM <cszikszoy_> so finally, what about scheduling another meeting?
9:06:21 PM <cszikszoy_> or is there a need?
9:06:44 PM <lamalex> im not sure there is at the moment
9:06:46 PM <RAOF> I’m not sure there’s a need.
9:07:05 PM <cszikszoy_> ok, we can continue the discussion of a Do.Interface rework through mailing list / google docs
9:07:07 PM <RAOF> If you think another meeting will be useful, feel free to ping everyone again.
9:07:15 PM <RAOF> cszikszoy_: Yes.
9:07:29 PM <cszikszoy_> ok, sounds good everyone.
9:07:41 PM <cszikszoy_> I’ve really goto go, buI’ll idle here for a while longer.
9:08:18 PM <DanRabbit> brb

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